Alright sounds good. That works for me. Cmowla is working on the latest revision. So perhaps we'll get it added after it's complete, that way everyone is on the same version. Thx

variations can be named what we want for Unleashed, like "Unleashed Mod / Any Mode, Any Car" that's not a problem :)
I prefer to see it under Test Drive 6 entry rather than it to have its own entry because it would be easier to compare times with the unmodded game, but I think this will be decided once unleashed get requested. I can still change my mind ^^

That makes sense. But the main thing about Unleashed is that it allows upgraded cars "career garage cars" to play without traffic. So with Unleashed there's no need to be in Practice mode, it would be an anything goes type of game just like Need For Speed.

Unleashed doesn't need many rules or limits, just simply the tracks to get fast times anyway the player chooses.

The reason the original game couldn't be this way is because it limits you to Practice mode "no upgraded garage cars" for no traffic races. So if there were an anything goes on the original game it wouldn't be balanced as racers with upgraded cars would be forced to have traffic and those who didn't want traffic would be forced to stock cars. Thus had to make the Practice No Traffic variation.

So if Unchained gets it's own game "or vatiation" it would simply be a free for all, just as we list Need For Speed and other racing games.

But it can also have its own variations such as Cop Mayhem mode "as I call it" which is in the options of Unchained to give each stage a sea of ramming squad cars for a super challenge.

For all of the above is why Unchained might be easiest to list as it's own game.

It could also be listed as a variation on the original like you mentioned but there would be no need to limit it to Practice mode or car type.

Well, at least I showed others that your "proof" in of itself cannot gain you the trust you were seeking. If you are as "skilled" as you claim to be, and can adapt so quickly, you MUST have a very high IQ (by definition). And if you have a high IQ, you're very smart. And if that's the case, you have a lot of capability to deceive us. I'm not giving you any benefit of doubt with such proof attempts because of this . . .

It was your idea to post a proof video (unless I missed it). They're going to have to just trust you and believe your far-fetched claims of overcoming enough odds to win lotteries back to back ( https://youtu.be/zhzKFyjYKBg ). Or they can simply vote NO for your runs by default like I will from now on.

no need to create a new game entry for this. I can just add a variation (ex: unleashed mod - BMW & unleashed mod - McLaren) which allow the 2 cars mentionned which will automatically forbid them on other variations.

I see you are going out of your way once again, honestly i hadn't even thought that out about the folders thing and if that makes you sleep better you can continue believing i changed the param files. Anyway, you cannot expect everyone to do such things and in particular starting in a small window just to please you and your skepticism.

👍 Cool alright sounds good to me.

Thanks WLB for letting us use your run as talking grounds.

It is late by me! 🛌 🌙

"So I understand if it's important to show my parameters after the game. But i don't think I'll be able to show the TD6 window open at the same time because I am using the original game disc on a Windows XP machine."

That's okay. The way you started your video out is the correct way to do it. The idea is to NOT start recording with the game already opened, and then close the game and expect everyone to assume that the Test Drive 6 folder that happens to be opened is the one that you just played from. Since you're using the original disk, again, you would maybe show the current date and time from the Windows icon and then go into the Test Drive folder in the program files folder on C drive that is associated with the disk (which you show that the Replay.000 file has the same date and approximate time that you exited the game). Then of course show the param folder and its contents.

_________________________________________
"That'd be just silly if the original game disc wasn't allowed because of this. The Practice mode variation is all about the original game settings, since it's the only way to play the original game without traffic for fast times."

Again, maybe you missed it because it's late, but read the above (and maybe my previous comment) again tomorrow. The original disk can most certainly be used if the video is structured properly (and of course, unedited) . . . just as the proof videos for the mods and portable version should be.

_________________________________________
And there is no need to show the contents of other folders in the Test Drive 6 folder except for the param folder, as the original disk's EXE cannot be modified in the same way as the portable and Unchained EXEs. (So most of the additional step in the comment of my video does not apply when using the original disk.)

I'll forsure show my PC. I show hardware often for console plays anyhow.

It's a Single disc machine. 1 disc tray only. No extra attachments.

The modded game doesn't use the disc at all, only the original does. Since I have the 2 games seperate. Inserting disc starts original game "which will not start without the disc" I've tried and it asks for the disc or will not play.

Modded aka Unchained bypasses the disc completely. Doesn't check the CD drive before starting.

I guess there could be some way around it to get the modded game to require the disc.. nothing I would know how to do, but understandable.

So I understand if it's important to show my parameters after the game. But i don't think I'll be able to show the TD6 window open at the same time because I am using the original game disc on a Windows XP machine.

That'd be just silly if the original game disc wasn't allowed because of this. The Practice mode variation is all about the original game settings, since it's the only way to play the original game without traffic for fast times.

I digress..

I'll show my set up and start up with the "please wait" screen to help verify its not Unchained. But if I need to show parameters it will have to be after the game is exited. As with original game I believe it's either full screen or closed.

I'm still a ways off before I get any times that will be questioned. And even so if my video has an hour of retrys beforehand it should make it more believable ;)

My smartphone can easily record a couple hours. Time flys when your having fun.

That sounds good . . . if you are playing on the original disk ONLY. As long as it's not possible to insert more than one original disk in the same computer (not using a portable DVD drive + the interior one, etc.) and therefore SOMEHOW have more than one Test Drive 6 folder on C Drive (that each CD recognizes). I never heard of such a thing, so it's pretty much given that there would be one Test Drive 6 folder in C drive that is edited/recognized by the disk.

But when installing Test Drive 6 with the disk, you can of course name the folder whatever you want. Therefore, it's possible that someone can install the game (with the original disk) twice (or simply make a copy of the Test Drive 6 folder once it's installed), where they, for example, name the folder that they are actually playing from something that doesn't start with any letter near T in the alphabet. (So that the folder is no where in view in Windows Explorer when the user "pretends" to show the Test Drive 6 folder's contents.) They could make a copy of that folder and name it "Test Drive 6" or similar and have all of the default files in that folder, but have modified files in the folder that is associated with the original disk that they are playing from!

We will have to wait to see what Mantalow says about my video proposal/model for PROVING use of original car parameters
. But, if someone uses the original disk, it has to be clear which folder is the TD6 disk is associated with. We can ask the user to show the current date (from the date and time icon) and then go into the folder and see some of the files that get updated when the game is run, like td6.log, Replay.000, etc. All of which should have the same date and time as when they exited the game after the run. (And again, with ephasis . . . no video editing allowed. If they don't want us to see the other contents on their C drive, they need to have the Test Drive folder from C drive opened in Windows Explorer before running the disk.)

Having a 640x480 window is possible when playing in the portable US version and/or TD6 Unchained v0.0 - v1.0. I don't ever recall it being available with the original disk either. But WLB was playing on Test Drive 6 Unchained v0.0, so it's available. But when playing from the portable version, Unchained, etc., you can have any number of instances of the game opened up simultaneously if you want. And so that means as many TD6 folders as you want. That makes the process I proposed for that form of medium of the game important to use. (Or something very similar that really helps to guarantee judges that they know which Test Drive 6 folder that the contestant was playing from.)

There may be more conditions for using the original disk that I cannot think of at the moment, but please share your thoughts!

I have another way to show I'm on the original game. 1st ill show my computer screen has nothing else open at all. Then I'll show me put in the original blue game disc. Then I'll focus back on the screen where after the humming of the disc a PLEASE WAIT tire tread image appears. "This is only shown when using the original disc" I won't click anything on the screen, I'll just let the disc open the game and I'll hit the enter key to start.

Moded exe will not play with the original disc, I've tried.

As long as nothing else is open on my screen this should show im in the original game. And I'll record every single retry and just add a time stamp to the good run. And after I can even exit the game to show no window was opened the entire time.

I honestly don't even know how to shrink the TD6 screen. It's either full screen or exited.

That's how it's meant to work from an old PC.

Here is an example of the tire tread please wait screen only accessed with the original disc. And notice nothing else is opened or messed with. I simply hit enter key after disc loads.
https://youtu.be/F4P1S15Cb1Q

BTW I don't necessarily have to film all of my retrys. If I end up filming too many I'll just re boot the game on a new video. As with this time it helped that I took a small break and was able to hit it off well on my 1st try. What it doesn't show is my session before where I played 2 hours straight.

But likely my videos will have plenty of retrys with this method. Just saying it's not hard for me to open the disc tray and re boot the game. It takes 5 seconds. That way my videos won't be too long.

WLB, see my previous comment to Mantalow.

Due to how easily I show that a "proof" of a run can be "faked" (using your method), I am going to change my vote to NO and keep it there until you make a proper proof video that follows the instructions of that video (including the pinned comment in the video's comment section).

Video editing can used to rig such proof videos, but it should be harder to do so than the trivial process to fake it, should one simply use your method. No offense intended! Keep my trust!

I request that this video (or something like it) be a model for how a contestant is to PROVE that they didn't use modified car param.scr files. (Also see my pinned comment in the video's comment section. In addition, the video description contains a link to an image which shows which abbreviation is for which car in the game.)
https://youtu.be/7ZNfQpKals0

The beginning of the video shows how easily one can fake a "proof", if he/she makes a "proof video" in a similar way to what WLB presented.

No, my best tracks are where i posted a score on here, i didn't mean Italy or Lake Tahoe, on such tracks i would need at least 20 completed runs before i consider a speedrun attempt. And yes, i play this game a lot where i am not at 100% concentration and speed but just playing it for fun with worse cars like the Jaguar or Ford or lower categories.

"Egypt is the only track i tried in "speedrun" conditions with the best car where i failed to beat your time. There are some other tracks i did like Italy, Rome or New York with different cars where i thought your time was very good but didn't try a speedrun attempt which is at least 10 consecutive attempts with either the Lotus or Nissan for me."

So with thousands of hours racing in Italy, you were certain (just a few days ago) that I have a very good time there. But now, ALL OF A SUDDEN, you realize that you can match the time in just 10 tries? That is, your "thousands of hours" of practice of 22 years < 10 tries in "speedrun mode"? If so, then all of your previous arguments about how much longer you have raced on this track than me is no justification (meaningless) for how few tries it takes you (in comparison to me).

And if this is not the case at all, then you just made that statement when it was convenient for you to "pretend" that you have some struggle in this game, when you were defending yourself that you didn't cheat.

(Either possibility makes me suspicious that you're not being truthful in some way.)

Also remember that whatever runs you do from now on, they cannot be in the form of replays. (New rule change.)

I doubt you would get any WR with the McLaren, for me it is a bit worse than the Toyota which is roughly 2 seconds slower than the Lotus/Nissan (those care are very similar in performances).
The BMW is definitely a cheat and shouldn't be used in this game, i think i could beat my best times by as much as 3-4 seconds with it.

. . . And for those reading this who don't know what "accelerating at maximum capacity" means, that means that, contrary to the times when you can hear the engine pitch is low for prolonged periods of time, the engine is at high pitch and the car is accelerating as fast as you would imagine a Class 4 car should be.

When a car is NOT accelerating at maximum capacity, it's accelerating almost as slowly as a Class 1/Class 2 car. This may be caused by going uphill, making a long (and sharp) turn, etc. But this can happen on FLAT track without sharp turns. It all depends on how well you maintain momentum from previous turns, how you land on the track after flying in the air from a hump, how hard (and long) you brake etc.

(This is the kind of "micromanaging" that is required to get these ridiculously good times with non-upgraded cars on these tracks . . . in combination with immense driving ability AND A LOT OF LUCK. Which from my experience, requires A LOT of attempts/tries.)

And accelerating at maximum capacity is NOT a given with a non-upgraded car like the Lotus GT1. You have to force it to accelerate at maximum capacity (the engine has a higher pitch and the car is accelerating several miles per hour per second), especially on this track.

I am VERY consistent with my driving. Sometimes it's very clear when I am not (when I make mistakes), but take this track as an example. There are several times when I drive through a pole without hitting it. But then other times, I somehow hit it (coming at it in the same angle).

There are many times when the AI racers (at the start): slam into me, tip me, lunge ahead of me and stop so that I hit them, etc. This sometimes happens 5-10 times IN A ROW . . . with me starting in 1st place . . . even when I purposely block the cars from trying to come around me from the left side. (So by no control of mine, this alone costs me 30% of the supposed qty of attempts that it took you to achieve this time. So if that leaves me only 20 additional attempts to get EVERYTHING right AND get EXTREMELY lucky. This doesn't happen to me ALL of the time, but if we are considering the sum total of all attempts to get a time, this does happen to me!)

Then there are many instances when the game temporarily freezes for a second (or another way to look at it, the track "jerks"), causing me to lose control of the car (at worst) or cause me to drive on more pavement than necessary (at best) . . . and my PC is modern and fine. These are NOT glitches.

And worst of all is keeping the car accelerating at maximum capacity and the speed high also. That requires risks in hitting/tipping walls, losing control of the car, etc. The car decelerates too much on its own. I have to MICROMANAGE/baby the car during the entire race so that it somewhat resembles if you have a level 4 tires upgrade. But the chances of managing to simulate that THE ENTIRE TRACK . . . and consider all of the other things that can go wrong as I stated above . . . make the chances of everything going right VERY SLIM.

Now even with all of that going right, if I don't drive on minimum pavement, that's also going to affect the time. And that involves risks similar to maintaining higher speeds (although the 2 are often conflicts of interest) and maintain accelerating at maximum capacity.

The most difficult part of this track is the first half of the track. You and I drive on a very similar (if not the same) path. But I SOMEHOW have 1/50 chances (literally) of maintaining WR pace there, and it seems you have around 2/5 chances.

And I'm so consistent of a driver, that if I get tired and start hitting a pole, I will hit the same pole literally 10 times IN A ROW in the exact same way. So with all due respect, being an inconsistent driver is not what is causing me to have to do a ridiculous number of tries! Rather, I declare it's that I am not consistently getting lucky on multiple parts of the track to pull off the (near improbable) time.

I forgot to attach you to my comment.

But yea I would say it's safer to leave Unchained it's very own game. Because if someone comes along with only the retail version they'd be at a disadvantage.

But I would love to see Unchained added to the site as an anything goes, since it allows you to race upgraded cars without traffic which is something the retail version can't do.

I thought you started playing this game in 2010 or something, i must have misunderstood you then. Egypt is the only track i tried in "speedrun" conditions with the best car where i failed to beat your time. There are some other tracks i did like Italy, Rome or New York with different cars where i thought your time was very good but didn't try a speedrun attempt which is at least 10 consecutive attempts with either the Lotus or Nissan for me.
I have never found a solution to keep correct aspect ratio on my other computer but i know i don't have a problem for rFactor on it so i am not sure what's going on.
I understand you, i used to do a lot of testing on these tracks, i would do like 5 runs for each car in every category and i would do a ranking for all cars. That's how obssessed i was with this game like 15 years ago. And it seems i am quicker now than in the past, so like you i feel like i kept improving my skills level every time and i am sure playing a lot at rFactor during the last 2-3 years played a part too.
Thank you for the developpers folder, i will have a look into it.
I may keep posting on my youtube channel my very best runs, or something that would be the closest to my 500 attempts record. But i am still a bit baffled by your number of attempts theory, someone who is consistent and quick wouldn't need that many laps, you just have to look at F1 drivers when they are in qualifying mode, they don't need too many laps to set up a lap record.

Imo Unchained is seperate from the original since it's modded to have the BMW which is the best car in the game and doesn't exist in the retail version.

But it would be awesome to get Unchained added if modded games are allowed.

I believe Marco was going to ask the top administrator if we were able to add that since it may be a 1st for the site.

Okay, gotcha. (I never knew that the PC version of this game was available on any of those forms of hardware.)

But since you're deeming my (current) mod okay for us to race with, we need to make clear whether the 2 new class 4 cars added in the game can be raced WITH or only raced AGAINST. The 2 "new" (they are original cars, but they were just "hidden" in the game's code) cars are quite powerful. Both are $1,000,000 cars like the Toyota, but both cars have more stability than the Toyota does without upgrades. (Especially the BMW.)

Just to give you an example, I can "easily" get a time that is 3-5 seconds better with the BMW than with whatever default car I find is best for ANY given track. That's difference between the BMW and the other cars. (The McLaren may be similar, but I don't drive with it often.) When I first discovered the BMW (made a little patch to swap cars in order to add it into the game), when I raced with it, this is how I described its capabilities over the default class 4 cars (direct quote of mine from Test Drive 6 Discord):

"It has acceleration like the TVR, the capacity to handle difficult terrain like the Nissan, has the ability to brake like the Toyota, has the turning capability of the Viper, and is as explosive as the Lotus! OMG!"

So allowing people to race with those 2 cars would give some competitors (who are good at driving them) an advantage over those who race with the default (originally "visible"/available) cars.

Although it's my mod, I am somewhat concerned that if competitors are allowed to set records with the BMW and McLaren, well, that discourages people to play with my mod, rather than with the original software.

If we are to allow my mod for this (current) Test Drive 6 category, someone (in the future) is bound to work really hard on a run(s) with the BMW and/or McLaren and would try to submit runs with those cars, because they are available to race with (not just against) in the mod. Unless it's clear (in the rules) that we may race AGAINST, but not WITH those cars, we are going to have a conflict in the future, should it in fact be that we may only race AGAINST those 2 cars.

That's fair enough to want to see a live play instead of a replay but for me showing a replay was the only viable thing to do, which left me the choice to record only what i want to record and believe it or not it is cmowla who motivated me to post some runs here or on speedrun when i told him about my driving prowess and having played the game for 22+ years. I can live without posting any runs here or anywhere else that's not a problem really. So unless i find a viable solution that is of interest to me in terms of recording runs that's it for me on this site, though i might still post them on my youtube channel.

it is just refering to hardware, we kept the same choices as for consoles systems, but maybe that's not the best.
Original Hardware = you own the machine and play game on it
Emulated = played on a PC/MAC/Printer/Toaster/whatever can run the game on, with emulator, roms/cart reader

For the things you mentioned about Hardware, noted.

"Your version of Test Drive 6 does not modify the game, it just adds some features and cars, so it's ok to play and submit that version within test drive 6 itself. Please correct me if I'm wrong. "
No, you are correct. I was thinking of "original hardware" implies original software.